View Full Version : Cam
Dougzilla
10-09-2009, 7:21pm
I need some recomendation for a good cam. I dont race the vette so i dont need a really radical cam.
Y2Kvert4me
10-09-2009, 7:57pm
I need some recomendation for a good cam. I dont race the vette so i dont need a really radical cam.I didn't need a really radical cam either...but I sure love it! :D
What DO you want, and what DON'T you want? Consider all these qualities of the car, and decide what's important to you:
Idle quality
Loudness
Low RPM cruising
Fuel economy
High or low RPM power
Ability to pass emissions (and if so, what type of test?)
Current, and planned future mods (heads? FI? Bottle?)
And of course, how you primarily use and enjoy the car....daily driver in heavy traffic, fair weather boulevard cruiser, freeway flyer, twisty backroad warrior, etc. Be realistic.
There's a lot of "big cam" proponents around, and there's a lot of "baby cam" proponents around, and everyone will want to tell you "what's best", but it's really only best if it fits with what you want.
:cheers:
Cobra4B
10-09-2009, 7:59pm
A classic "medium" cam (smaller by today's standards) is the Thunder Racing 224/224. But yeah... it's all depends on what you want and what you can tolerate. What's fine by one guy may be horrible to another.
I have MTI's X-1 cam and love it.....
A good rule of thumb is to use the smallest cam possible to achieve the results you want.
A 224-228 cam on either a 112 +2 or 114 +4 LSA will work very well with today's tuning capabilities. Now it's a matter of picking the right lobes, etc. I've used custom cams designed by Bret Bauer of Bauer Racing engines and recommend them highly.
A good rule of thumb is to use the smallest cam possible to achieve the results you want.
A 224-228 cam on either a 112 +2 or 114 +4 LSA will work very well with today's tuning capabilities. Now it's a matter of picking the right lobes, etc. I've used custom cams designed by Bret Bauer of Bauer Racing engines and recommend them highly.
The cam in Kevins car seems to be a nice choice for his application. At least my neck says it's a good choice! :D
C5 BEARSFAN
10-14-2009, 12:11am
sounds clips:metal:
DropTheTop
10-14-2009, 7:07am
sounds clips:metal:
Sound clips, sound clips, sound clips . . .:above:
MYSCZ06
10-14-2009, 7:41am
http://www.ls1sounds.com/
check out this link..its mainly for exhaust but if you search thru there you can find many cars with cam's and the cam spec's allowing you to hear what it sounds like
Dougzilla
10-14-2009, 6:58pm
I know EnglandGreen had sound bits at one time but I cant find them.
As for a cam I think I will stay in the 224 to 230 range on a 112 OR 114.
Chris@ECS
10-15-2009, 8:01am
Here is a head and cam car with GHL's
GHL Catback Exhaust Corvette C5 C6 GHL Magnum Bullets - East Coast Supercharging - Retailer Installer for LSx C5 & C6 Performance (http://www.eastcoastsupercharging.com/GHL.html)
DropTheTop
10-15-2009, 8:22am
Here is a head and cam car with GHL's
GHL Catback Exhaust Corvette C5 C6 GHL Magnum Bullets - East Coast Supercharging - Retailer Installer for LSx C5 & C6 Performance (http://www.eastcoastsupercharging.com/GHL.html)
Wow, that's killer!
MYSCZ06
10-15-2009, 8:48am
That is a pretty badass system!!
Dougzilla
10-15-2009, 5:06pm
What cam is that ? Thats what I'm looking for.
edcmat-l1
10-21-2009, 11:02am
We have several PROVEN mild cams for the LS1s. We can set you up with a real nice cam, and a very good tune to go along with it. Ask anyone who's been tuned by me. I'm a bit of a perfectionist. I want everything to "drive like stock" LOL
Cobra4B
10-21-2009, 11:53am
+1,000,000 on Ed's tuning... I'm an anal technical car person. Ed made me a happy customer and that's a hard thing to do.
willyfastz
10-22-2009, 7:10am
There's a lot of good points in this thread. I dought you want one of the monster cams. For a good daily driver that's going to be a lot of fun stick with something on the milder side. The loss of lowend and drivablity from the big cams normally end up taking some of the fun out of just getting out on the high way and cruising.
If you'ed like to call and talk about some of our custom grinds fill free to give me a ring.
William Wiggins
252-670-7706
I can't believe people are judging and buying cams based on the way they sound. That's just insane. I was going to say stupid but I didn't want to offend anyone. :crazy:
Why not choose a cam - after talking with the right people - that makes the kind of power you want. You can make any cam lope hard if you set the idle low enough.
Cobra4B
10-22-2009, 8:58am
I can't believe people are judging and buying cams based on the way they sound. That's just insane. I was going to say stupid but I didn't want to offend anyone. :crazy:
Why not choose a cam - after talking with the right people - that makes the kind of power you want. You can make any cam lope hard if you set the idle low enough.
Truth is most people think they want a cam because of how it makes the car sound at idle :banghead:
DropTheTop
10-22-2009, 9:41am
I can't believe people are judging and buying cams based on the way they sound. That's just insane. I was going to say stupid but I didn't want to offend anyone. :crazy:
Why not choose a cam - after talking with the right people - that makes the kind of power you want. You can make any cam lope hard if you set the idle low enough.
Hey man, I just wanted to hear some clips cause I like the sounds - kinda like peepin' boobies for the ears. I'm not shopping based on it! Don't get all :banghead:
Hey man, I just wanted to hear some clips cause I like the sounds - kinda like peepin' boobies for the ears. I'm not shopping based on it! Don't get all :banghead:
IMHO: The best cams for the street will have a tight LSA. Tighter LSA - 110-112 - will give you better bottom and mid power than a wider LSA (114+). A byproduct of the tighter LSA is they do tend to lope harder all things being equal. I've never run a cam wider than 112. My current cam is 111. Overlap is another factor that determines idle quality. More overlap = rougher idle. For example LG's G5X3 on a 112 has 13 degrees of overlap. I had a cam that had 19 degrees. It was pretty much untunable. My current cam has 10 degrees of overlap and idles fairly smoothly.
Cobra4B
10-22-2009, 10:17am
I disagree a bit... wider LSA makes for a bit smoother idle and the car is easier to tune for drivability. Your power band will be moved up a bit, but it will be roader. Tight LSAs = more mid range, but also a narrower powerband.
Based on this calculator my 232/240 G5-X2 on a 114 LSA has 8 degrees of overlap. A G5-X3 which is 234/242 is a bit more... w/ a 112 LSA it shows 14 degrees overlap.
I disagree a bit... wider LSA makes for a bit smoother idle and the car is easier to tune for drivability. Your power band will be moved up a bit, but it will be roader. Tight LSAs = more mid range, but also a narrower powerband.
Based on this calculator my 232/240 G5-X2 on a 114 LSA has 8 degrees of overlap. A G5-X3 which is 234/242 is a bit more... w/ a 112 LSA it shows 14 degrees overlap.
Wider lsa does give you better idle quality but it also moves the power up in RPM. I'd rather have street power available sooner rather than later.
BTW: Most cam designers get the valve events right and the lsa falls were it falls. It's not something that is predetermined in the design stage. After the cam is spec'd they look back and see where the LSA ended up. I learned quite a bit from Bret Bauer re cam design when he was doing mine. We still talk all the time.
Cobra4B
10-22-2009, 10:40am
That is true... if going w/ a completely custom cam. I had Patrick G spec a new cam for me, but in the end I'm going to keep my G5-X2 in there. With an off the shelf cam you usualliy have the option of picking which LSA you want w/ the grind. The quick and dirty of it all is that the lower the LSA the narrower the power band and lower in the RPM range while the higher the LSA (wider angle) the broader the powerband is, but with peaking coming higher in the rpm range.
I don't disagree that for a street only car you want lots of low end torque. My car doesn't start to boogie until 3500rpms... it's no dog below that, but it could have more grunt. The nice thing is that w/ my wide duration spread the cam makes great power after peak and will pull past 7000 rpms easily if I wanted to. However I only pull it to 6800ish on the street.
However I only pull it to 6800ish on the street.
What percentage of driving time do you do that? What about the other 99.99% of the time? Most of my driving is below 3500RPM.
Cobra4B
10-22-2009, 11:43am
I picked my cam when I was doing HPDEs in the car... I wanted a higher end powerband because the car is rarely below 3000 rpms at VIR etc.
My car is no slouch down low like some huge cammed cars... the LSA is actually a 114+4 so it has advanced ground in and makes good mid-range. Yes I could have a stump puller cam for the street, but that'd just result in more tire spin. Even w/ the 3500+ cam powerband the car will still roll the tires over in 1st and 2nd when leaving from a roll.
If you compare my bolt-ons dyno to my cam dyno you'll see that below 300 rpms I'm down about 5-7 ft/lbs, then from 3000-3500 they're equal, then after 3500 everything goes up.
Y2Kvert4me
10-22-2009, 4:38pm
For example LG's G5X3 on a 112 has 13 degrees of overlap. I had a cam that had 19 degrees. It was pretty much untunable. I'm running 20° overlap (240/244-111 lsa), and had little trouble tuning it in myself. Yes, there was a lot of time spent experimenting and tweaking the tune to get it there, I wouldn't be surprised if I've flashed the PCM 200 times by now. But I am not a pro tuner by any means, I learned as I progressed.
It idles stable, is no problem in stop n go traffic, re-starts nicely and settles into idle right away. The usual trouble points that tuners hate about huge cams.
It does surge a bit below 1500RPM in the lower gears, so guess what, I don't drive below 1500RPM. Heck, I didn't even drive below 1500 RPM when it was stock, why would I want to now? :D
As for the other downsides, I LIKE the loud, the outrageous loping and shaking, and I have no emissions concerns to deal with. The sweet smell of unburnt fuel also does not bother me.
The usual use of my car is to shows and cruise nights, where loud and outrageous is the name of the game. Or, going out to run the twisty rural backroads with the sole intention of burning up a tank of gas as quickly as possible. And maybe the occasional freeway roll-on match...which I usually downshift to 3rd to initiate. (M6 car)
All in all, I really don't care what it does below 3000RPMs, and have never found a need to either. The manners are fine enough to cruise in traffic sedately, and it's more than ballsy enough when the power IS called on. What lies in between those extremes is of little concern. I don't drive it daily, I almost never drive it to work, and rarely in heavy traffic (unless unavoidable). It's just a toy, not transportation to me.
For those purposes, a baby cam is not at all what I would want, and I'm not at all unhappy with my current cam choice...it's done everything I wanted it to do, and then some. If I had to do it over, my next one will be bigger yet.
I've run against 224/228 cars already with $$ heads, and Mamofied FAST90 intake, I know the results too. NFW would I ever go to a smaller cam.
As with anything, there is no right or wrong here, a cam choice is personal preference, and it sounds like your needs and desires for a street car are considerably different than mine.
Thats exactly why I asked the OP what his preferences were in post #2, before suggesting anything.
:cheers:
nedih rotaredom
10-22-2009, 7:33pm
Well...........I like my 2
YouTube - 97 417 cid idle
Unknown cam..............:)
YouTube - 2001 sleeper 414 stroker
HYDRAULIC ROLLER CAM .613/.647 @ 250/258 WITH 114+2 LSA
Too bad the 00' is stock...............so far:waiting:
zz4vetteguy
10-24-2009, 2:47pm
Too bad the 00' is stock...............so far:waiting:
:popcorns:
tomurphjr
10-24-2009, 6:48pm
I need some recomendation for a good cam. I dont race the vette so i dont need a really radical cam.
Doug,
Shoot me your email address and I send you the custom cam sheet that I was telling you about.
Dougzilla
10-25-2009, 6:15am
Doug,
Shoot me your email address and I send you the custom cam sheet that I was telling you about.
You got it.
willyfastz
10-25-2009, 10:19am
There's no reason the OP can't have the best of both worlds. Why not do a cam that has good lowend and pulls to 6800/7000?
Y2Kvert4me
10-25-2009, 10:54am
There's no reason the OP can't have the best of both worlds. Why not do a cam that has good lowend and pulls to 6800/7000? This is kinda true, but you really can't have THE BEST of both worlds. You can compromise and select a good "all around" street cam that does everything well, but excels at nothing...but it will not eclipse the peak power of a larger cam, and it will not be a stump-puller either. It will fall into the large gray area in between. It is within this "street cam" area that a little more info could help determine towards which end of the spectrum to start making suggestions.
A cam is always a compromise in one way or another, and it again boils down to what the person wants, doesn't want, the supporting mods, and how the vehicle is used. Simply assuming all those aspects just because it's a "street car" is not the best approach, and is still not a "one size fits all" definition.
:cheers:
willyfastz
10-25-2009, 8:16pm
This is kinda true, but you really can't have THE BEST of both worlds. You can compromise and select a good "all around" street cam that does everything well, but excels at nothing...but it will not eclipse the peak power of a larger cam, and it will not be a stump-puller either. It will fall into the large gray area in between. It is within this "street cam" area that a little more info could help determine towards which end of the spectrum to start making suggestions.
A cam is always a compromise in one way or another, and it again boils down to what the person wants, doesn't want, the supporting mods, and how the vehicle is used. Simply assuming all those aspects just because it's a "street car" is not the best approach, and is still not a "one size fits all" definition.
:cheers:
So a cam that MAY fall short by maybe 10rwhp at 6500rpm but has 30/60 lbft more torque at 3000rpm is a compromise? A cam doesn't really have to be a compromise if it fit's the application your using it for. That's where having a cam spec'd by a knowledgeable cam person goes a long ways.
Y2Kvert4me
10-25-2009, 8:44pm
So a cam that MAY fall short by maybe 10rwhp at 6500rpm but has 30/60 lbft more torque at 3000rpm is a compromise? A cam doesn't really have to be a compromise if it fit's the application your using it for. That's where having a cam spec'd by a knowledgeable cam person goes a long ways.I agree wholeheartedly...please don't think I'm disagreeing with you, I am not.
The point I've tried to make in every single reply I have on this thread, is that you, me, Kevin, even your bud Bret does not have the info needed to correctly spec a cam for this guy, not even enough to suggest a ballpark duration. This application info is what we are lacking.
:cheers:
willyfastz
10-25-2009, 8:49pm
I agree wholeheartedly...please don't think I'm disagreeing with you, I am not.
The point I've tried to make in every single reply I have on this thread, is that you, me, Kevin, even your bud Bret does not have the info needed to correctly spec a cam for this guy, not even enough to suggest a ballpark duration, given the very limited info we currently have about his application.
:cheers:
Your deff. right, he gave very little info for something that's very important. He did say he doesn't race the car, so that would lead you to believe it's going to be for street use. Now all that would be needed is a list of everything on the car.:thumbsup:
tomurphjr
11-09-2009, 3:01pm
I need some recomendation for a good cam. I dont race the vette so i dont need a really radical cam.
Did you get the cam specs I sent you? What do you think?
Dougzilla
11-09-2009, 5:54pm
Yes I got the spec sheet. Looks really good.
tomurphjr
11-10-2009, 11:46am
Yes I got the spec sheet. Looks really good.
Cool. If you end up going with it, let me know the numbers you put down.
willyfastz
11-16-2009, 9:00pm
Yes I got the spec sheet. Looks really good.
What part of the specs looked good?
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