Here Is A Game Changer

[Jeff '79]

These will eventually be on every roof in the world imo....

Tesla says it will start making solar roofs in Buffalo by end of year - The Buffalo News (http://buffalonews.com/2017/08/02/tesla-says-will-start-making-solar-roofs-buffalo-end-year/)

12616

[VatorMan]

Average cost of a Tesla roof system is $52,000. :wow: That's quite a hunk of cheddar.

[Jeff '79]

Average cost of a Tesla roof system is $52,000. :wow: That's quite a hunk of cheddar.

The roof tiles are cheaper than comparable asphalt roofing .
The higher cost that you mention must be in the inside infrastructure? :waiting:

[Rob]

The roof tiles are cheaper than comparable asphalt roofing .
The higher cost that you mention must be in the inside infrastructure? :waiting:

I know the powerwall is not cheap.

The estimated cost of your Solar Roof includes materials, installation, and the removal of your old roof.

https://www.tesla.com/solarroof

[VatorMan]

The roof tiles are cheaper than comparable asphalt roofing .
The higher cost that you mention must be in the inside infrastructure? :waiting:

I got my info from here :

https://www.tesla.com/support/solar-roof-faqs

You figure roof removal, permits and installation are a large portion of the cost. Say you are due for a new roof. Typically costs about $10K. So now the Tesla roof costs are much less. You will need to install a net meter-(so you can receive $$ from the utility) so that's another $1500. It is getting to a reasonable price point based on the amount of work.

I still wonder how the local fire departments will deal with these type roofs. Some departments refuse to put water on a solar roof due to electrical hazards.

[Jeff '79]

I got my info from here :

https://www.tesla.com/support/solar-roof-faqs

You figure roof removal, permits and installation are a large portion of the cost. Say you are due for a new roof. Typically costs about $10K. So now the Tesla roof costs are much less. You will need to install a net meter-(so you can receive $$ from the utility) so that's another $1500. It is getting to a reasonable price point based on the amount of work.

I still wonder how the local fire departments will deal with these type roofs. Some departments refuse to put water on a solar roof due to electrical hazards.

A typical roof costs considerably more than $10k around here. :yesnod:
Interesting fact that FD's won't put water on them.
It rains on them , so what's up wit dat ? :Jeff '79:

[99 pewtercoupe]

A typical roof costs considerably more than $10k around here. :yesnod:
Interesting fact that FD's won't put water on them.
It rains on them , so what's up wit dat ? :Jeff '79:

just had to replace our roof due to hail damage. Ours was just over twice that amount.

[VatorMan]

A typical roof costs considerably more than $10k around here. :yesnod:
Interesting fact that FD's won't put water on them.
It rains on them , so what's up wit dat ? :Jeff '79:

There's not a person holding a hose. :yesnod:

NFPA Report:

If a photovoltaic solar array becomes engulfed in fire, care should be exercised in fighting the
fire, and it should be attacked similarly to any piece of electrically energized equipment.
Normally this would involve shutting down the power and applying water in a fog pattern on
the photovoltaic array, but it is critical to be aware that a solar panel exposed to sunlight is
always “on” and energized. Further, the electrical energy produced by multiple series
connected panels or large solar systems are normally very dangerous.
One additional secondary concern that should always be considered when approaching rooftop
solar power systems is that the module frame and junction boxes provide ideal nesting
locations for biting and stinging insects. This could introduce an additional layer of difficulty for
on scene fire fighters, enhancing other hazard concerns such as tripping or slipping.
The added rooftop weight may be a concern in some cases, although most of today’s modern
solar panel modules do not contribute an appreciable additional dead load on the roof. For a
photovoltaic system, a typical panel weighs less than 50 pounds, and this is distributed over a
relatively wide surface area that results in a cumulatively low additional roof load. A
noteworthy exception, however, is when a solar thermal system includes a roof-mounted fluid
storage unit. This could add a significant load at a specific localized position.
Electrical Shock Considerations
For solar thermal systems, the hazards facing fire fighters during fireground operations are not
usually considered a serious additional concern, and they can be readily addressed in their
normal tactical and strategic approaches. In contrast, however, the electrical shock hazard of
--- Page 53 of 93 ---
photovoltaic systems presents an additional challenge, although it is one that fire fighters can
readily handle once equipped with the proper operational knowledge. Thus, the need to
identify and determine the type of solar power system is a critical step for emergency
responders.
A photovoltaic system generates electricity when the sun is shining, and when it is receiving
sunlight it is operational and generating electricity. This creates additional challenges for the
fireground task of shutting off the utilities and the electrical power in the structure that could
be a dangerous source of electric shock. Even with known shutdown steps taken to isolate
electrical current, fire fighters should always treat all wiring and solar power components as if
they are electrically energized.
128

The inability to de-energize individual photovoltaic panels exposed to sunlight cannot be
overemphasized. It is absolutely imperative that emergency responders always treat the
systems and all its components as energized. This includes after the emergency event is
stabilized, as the system will continue to be energized while exposed to sunlight, possibly with
damaged system components that could present serious shock hazards or even cause a
rekindling of a fire. Operational approaches for fire fighters in situations involving live electrical
systems is well established, and constant attention needs to be given to the threat of live
electrical wiring and components.
129

Because a photovoltaic module and their respective solar cells within the modules will continue
to generate electricity when exposed to light, any conduit or components between the modules
and disconnect/isolation switches remain energized. Care should be taken throughout
fireground operations never to cut or damage any conduit or any electrical equipment, and
they should be treated as energized at all times. One tactic for minimizing or eliminating the
electrical output from a solar module is to cover it with a 100% light-blocking material such as
certain types of tarpaulin. However, this is a difficult tactic to implement, since many tarpaulins
are not 100% light-blocking, often the solar system is too large for this to be realistically
applied, and wind or other external influences (e.g., hose streams) make it difficult to maintain
coverage.
The number of photovoltaic panels in the solar power system provides an indication of the
magnitude of the electrical energy being generated. A smaller system such as on a residential
occupancy might include only a few modules; however, the electricity generated is still
appreciable and can be lethal. In contrast, large systems that are now being installed on roofs
of commercial buildings (e.g., department stores) sometimes have hundreds of panels, and the
electrical current they generate is very significant.
The inability to shut down the power on these large systems exemplifies the challenge facing
fire fighters, since every panel is still generating electricity and thus the wiring and components
are always “live” when the sun is shining. The presence of rooftop disconnects are primarily for
maintenance of the system. Fire fighters should be wary of utilizing these as a secure method
of power isolation. If not all disconnects to an inverter are opened, there still exists the
--- Page 54 of 93 ---
possibility of voltage throughout the system. Additionally, large capacitors in the inverters will
provide voltage in daylight hours for several minutes on both sides of the disconnect even
when opened.

There's a lot more, but you get the gist.

[snide]

Average cost of a Tesla roof system is $52,000. :wow: That's quite a hunk of cheddar.

Would cost almost $53,000 for my NH house, and a whopping $73k for our PA house. :eek: Sure, there are tax credits to bring those costs down, but holy crap!

[Bill]

$55,500

Value of energy

-$78,500

Cost of roof

-$12,500

Cost of 2 Powerwall batteries

+$22,400

Tax credit

Roof square footage

$

Current electric bill

$13,100

Net cost over 30 years
A traditional roof starts at about $14,800 in comparison
Edit assumptions

Roof is $ 78,000 without batteries? Uh, yeah, probably would not buy.

Edit: I can see that this will be the wave of the future, though. Seems a lot like flat screen TV's. As the cost comes down, people will buy this.

[StaticCling]

just had to replace our roof due to hail damage. Ours was just over twice that amount.

Yeah, I paid about 20k for ours a few years ago. I went with the most expensive estimate and the highest rated roofer I could find. I didn't wanna f**k around.

Not trying to be racist, but the roofer we hired didn't use illegal immigrants, and the quality of work SHOWED.

[Lakota]

The Buffalo, NY solar roof factory cost $750,000,000 all paid for by New York State. The solar people initially claimed they would create 1,200 jobs and they revised it to about 500 AFTER the factory was built.

Our NY Gov Cuomo is nuts with his corporate welfare program and giving out billions of dollars of taxpayer money with a little return and never enough for a complete payback.

Saw a breakdown yesterday of the system in three different area of the US. A lifespan of 30 years with an initial $12,500 tax credit. In TX a net loss, in TN almost a break even and only in Calif after 30 years you'll be $45,000 ahead.

[Kerrmudgeon]

Now if they could incorporate the solar panels into the roof of a Tesla and be able to charge it's batteries for free......winner!

[Jeff '79]

The Buffalo, NY solar roof factory cost $750,000,000 all paid for by New York State. The solar people initially claimed they would create 1,200 jobs and they revised it to about 500 AFTER the factory was built.

Our NY Gov Cuomo is nuts with his corporate welfare program and giving out billions of dollars of taxpayer money with a little return and never enough for a complete payback.

Saw a breakdown yesterday of the system in three different area of the US. A lifespan of 30 years with an initial $12,500 tax credit. In TX a net loss, in TN almost a break even and only in Calif after 30 years you'll be $45,000 ahead.

I can't argue that one bit.
IF, and again, IF this takes off, it'll be huge for Buffalo,albeit, Buffalo is cranking right now anyway.

30 year life span ??? I did not know that.

Anyway, if I switched to all electricity and used this system, figuring an average per month gas and electric bill of $260 combined and a roof cost of $55k as mentioned before, less $20k for what a roof would normally cost, I figure that it would take less than 15 years to recoup the cost.
It would add great resale value to the house and I'd be off the grid.
If I switched to electric cars, the savings would be even greater due to the elimination of fuel costs.
I love the concept, but at 53 years old, I'd never get my investment back.

[Jeff '79]

In an interview last night, Elon Musk said:

Tesla Inc. CEO Elon Musk has a message for skeptics who don’t think the company will keep its promises to open a massive solar panel factory in South Buffalo that ultimately will employ nearly 1,500 people: Our word is good.

Musk said Tesla is going to live up to its pledges in Buffalo by directly addressing critics who doubt that the electric vehicle maker will meet its lofty promises for nearly 1,500 jobs at a now-completed factory, which was built with $750 million in taxpayer subsidies. The opening is badly behind schedule and only now showing the first sign of hiring.

“We have made that commitment to the state of New York,” Musk said during a conference call Wednesday night. “We are going to keep that commitment.”

Tesla has installed the first working versions of its solar roofs — made at its pilot factory in California — at the homes of Tesla employees, including Musk and J.B. Straubel, the company’s chief technology officer. Doing the first installations with Tesla employees and investors allows the company to identify and address potential problems within “a tight internal feedback loop,” Musk said.
David Robinson: Tesla's Elon Musk has a message for Buffalo skeptics - The Buffalo News (http://buffalonews.com/2017/08/03/david-robinson-teslas-elon-musk-message-skeptics/)

People are skeptical and think inventors are crazy.
No one believed Thomas Edison, or Nikola Tesla, for example.
Well, Musk just may be one of those visionaries.....
Time will tell...:ball:

[markids77]

I can't argue that one bit.
IF, and again, IF this takes off, it'll be huge for Buffalo,albeit, Buffalo is cranking right now anyway.

30 year life span ??? I did not know that.

Anyway, if I switched to all electricity and used this system, figuring an average per month gas and electric bill of $260 combined and a roof cost of $55k as mentioned before, less $20k for what a roof would normally cost, I figure that it would take less than 15 years to recoup the cost.
It would add great resale value to the house and I'd be off the grid.
If I switched to electric cars, the savings would be even greater due to the elimination of fuel costs.
I love the concept, but at 53 years old, I'd never get my investment back.


Doesn't make sense here in GA. 2600SF ranch, complete strip, ice and water shield, reroof with 35 year architectural shingles 10K all in 8 months ago.
All electric, including two discreet zoned heat pumps, well and macerator pump for septic field... just the two of us but electric bill averages $125 to 155 a month; some off peak months as low as $65.00. There's no hope of ever breaking even with electricity so cheap here.

[Millenium Vette]

People are skeptical and think inventors are crazy.
No one believed Thomas Edison, or Nikola Tesla, for example.
Well, Musk just may be one of those visionaries.....
Time will tell...:ball:

How much did Edison or Nikola Tesla get in government subsidies? Elon Musk is the Bernie Madoff of the Electric world.

Having said that, I don't hate what Musk is doing. I just hope his companies develop as much useful tech as possible before his empire implodes, if and when all his government subsidies end. :cert:

[wwomanC6]

How does that roofing hold up to hail damage?

[Jeff '79]

How does that roofing hold up to hail damage?

Class 4. The best there is.

Dixie posted this and it has a lot of info.

https://www.tesla.com/solarroof

[mrvette]

How does that roofing hold up to hail damage?

That is just one of the issues, in fact I make a flat statement......


NONE of them solar arrays on any install will EVER last 30 years, not even close, maybe a dozen years with reduced outputs down to less than 50% toward the end......

All these discussions seem to gloss over the FACTS of product degradation as years/weather/dirt/water/UNDERLAYMENTS/wiring/conduits rusting-corroding...much less sunlight taking it's toll on the active elements....AND how in hell is one going to get up on the roof with as lo as a 4/12 pitch and walk on any GLASS slick surface?? much less will the panels support a person's weight?? doubtful.....

:issues:

[Jeff '79]

That is just one of the issues, in fact I make a flat statement......


NONE of them solar arrays on any install will EVER last 30 years, not even close, maybe a dozen years with reduced outputs down to less than 50% toward the end......

All these discussions seem to gloss over the FACTS of product degradation as years/weather/dirt/water/UNDERLAYMENTS/wiring/conduits rusting-corroding...much less sunlight taking it's toll on the active elements....AND how in hell is one going to get up on the roof with as lo as a 4/12 pitch and walk on any GLASS slick surface?? much less will the panels support a person's weight?? doubtful.....

:issues:

Only if there was a little box that we could type questions into and get the answers instantly....
Now THAT would be amazing......:yesnod:

[mrvette]

Only if there was a little box that we could type questions into and get the answers instantly....
Now THAT would be amazing......:yesnod:

Sales hype you mean, as they dodge the pointed questions above.....

:issues:

[OddBall]

That roof isn't the only cost in a solar-powered system.

You've also got the cost of the battery bank, which will be huge.
You'll also need backup generators to keep those batteries topped off in no-sunlight days, because if they get below a certain percentage of their capacity they'll start losing lifespan, then you've got replacement costs.
Also the inverters and controllers are going to be pricey too. You could replace all your appliances with DC powered appliances to reduce the size of the inverter that you need ( inverters have a huge power loss), but they are pricey too.

[VITE1]

It's all about ROI and it's not worth it at this point in the technology.

It's getting better but it would take 15 years to get a return on an investment in solar here in Florida WITH subsides. Not worth it now.

Once ROI is inside 10 years then I will go for it. It would be great to be less reliant on the grid here.

[snide]

As our PA house is 24 years old, it may need a new roof in 5-15 years. If the costs come down to where it is not significantly more expensive than traditional shingles, and if the ROI is less than 15 years, I may consider the Tesla roof.

Will be interesting to see if the Tesla roof would add to resale value, or if it end up being a liability.

[VatorMan]

It's all about ROI and it's not worth it at this point in the technology.

It's getting better but it would take 15 years to get a return on an investment in solar here in Florida WITH subsides. Not worth it now.

Once ROI is inside 10 years then I will go for it. It would be great to be less reliant on the grid here.

Those roofs will sell like hotcakes here in MD. The technology is sound. The storage option is worthwhile as well. My biggest concern is the ability to replace defective panels. Plus as I've mentioned before, will the fire dept. let my house burn because of the electrical shock fear. Both concerns aren't deal breakers. I'm thinking the break even point is 10 cents a KWH.

[OddBall]

Also, if the thought is to just generate power from the roof and feed it back into the grid, expect the power companies to get laws passed that you can't force them to buy it.

[VatorMan]

Also, if the thought is to just generate power from the roof and feed it back into the grid, expect the power companies to get laws passed that you can't force them to buy it.

Well, if you size the system appropriately, you won't have to worry. It's called Net metering. Here at my work we are building an 8 MW Cogen and a 5 MW solar array. Our lowest energy usage is 14 MW. So we will never feed back to the utility. However, our utility has promised to keep enough room on the grid in case we have to use them.

[Lakota]

Found the article I referenced in post 12. Wasn't TN, but NY, TX and Calif for an economic breakdown. It was in" Consumer Report" magazine.

Doing the Math on Tesla's Solar Roof

https://www.consumerreports.org/solar-panels/doing-the-math-on-teslas-solar-roof/