View Full Version : So the shit has hit the fan...
Barn Babe
03-24-2011, 6:32pm
Remember the bottomfeeders who have been bilking my FIL who passed away on Tuesday? Well, one of them showed up at the house today and informed my husband and his brother that they will be suing the estate for monies owed to them. The brothers don't have the money to bury their father so they are having him cremated. She has also informed them that SHE will be reporting THEM for elder abuse as he wanted to be buried.:beat: There is no will.
She says she has a "power of attorney" but I have no idea what it's for...
The brothers are changing the locks on the house but due to fly back on Saturday.
I've dealt with riff-raff before, but never anybody this extreme. Does anybody have any advice?
Does anybody have any advice?
Guido
Defib1961
03-24-2011, 6:35pm
Bury her up to her neck in an ant bed and pour honey over her head.
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a284/Harold1224/100_1675.jpg
high desert
03-24-2011, 6:37pm
Wow, that sucks. People who prey on the elderly are the lowest form of scum.
Sorry, I have no advice other than retain an attorney.
MrPeabody
03-24-2011, 6:38pm
Did your FIL have an advance directive filled out with his doctor or a medical care facility? The primary person named on his advance directive has authority over the disposition of the remains.
Never worry when some one tells you they are going to sue you. If they have a reason to sue you, they would have spoken with an attorney and the attorney would be notifying you you are being sued, not them.
khblair
03-24-2011, 6:38pm
:sadangel: im sorry
powers of atty expire with the passing. so any POA that your FIL had is null and void now that he has passed.
without a will, the laws of intestate (law prescribes who gets what) prevail. without written directions, it's hard to insist that something is done or not done.
wish you well. :sadangel::sadangel:
please, get legal papers in order before it is too late.
as for debts, the personal representative (executor) will have to total up all assets as of the day of passing, and account to the probate court where it all went since then, and if there is not enough to pay all debts, then they will only get a pro-rata share of what is left.
If she had power of attorney, there would be no need to sue as she would have cleaned him out prior to his death. Power of Attorney is nullified at the time of death.
...one of them showed up at the house today and informed my husband and his brother that they will be suing the estate for monies owed to them.
what is the financial condition of the estate?
Entropy
03-24-2011, 6:39pm
Damn BB, I hope it all works out in the end. This just makes a bad situation worse.
:chitfan:
<just had to >:leaving:
polarbear
03-24-2011, 6:41pm
powers of atty expire with the passing. so any POA that your FIL had is null and void now that he has passed.
without a will, the laws of intestate (law prescribes who gets what) prevail. without written directions, it's hard to insist that something is done or not done.
wish you well. :sadangel::sadangel:
please, get legal papers in order before it is too late.
as for debts, the personal representative (executor) will have to total up all assets as of the day of passing, and account to the probate court where it all went since then, and if there is not enough to pay all debts, then they will only get a pro-rata share of what is left.
:iagree:
Curvette
03-24-2011, 6:41pm
I would hire a lawyer as soon as you can.
Not to fight anything or even anticipate one, , but to be the buffer, answer all questions about the estate, take care of paperwork, etc..so YOU ( or your husband, etc.)dont have to. It is very worth the $$ out.
Mark C5
03-24-2011, 6:41pm
Unfortunately BB you really need to get a lawyer. A vicious, mean-spirited, nasty, mad dog type lawyer. People like her can cause a great deal of aggravation and need to be squashed quickly and permanently. It's a shame to have to spend the money, but if you don't I'm afraid you'll regret it.
Rotorhead
03-24-2011, 6:41pm
Remember the bottomfeeders who have been bilking my FIL who passed away on Tuesday? Well, one of them showed up at the house today and informed my husband and his brother that they will be suing the estate for monies owed to them. The brothers don't have the money to bury their father so they are having him cremated. She has also informed them that SHE will be reporting THEM for elder abuse as he wanted to be buried.:beat: There is no will.
She says she has a "power of attorney" but I have no idea what it's for...
The brothers are changing the locks on the house but due to fly back on Saturday.
I've dealt with riff-raff before, but never anybody this extreme. Does anybody have any advice?
BB I'm sorry for you and your husbands loss. Unfortunately this type of stuff happens more than you know.:sadangel:
Jeff '79
03-24-2011, 6:42pm
I would hire a lawyer as soon as you can.
Not to fight anything or even anticipate one, , but to be the buffer, answer all questions about the estate, take care of paperwork, etc..so YOU ( or your husband, etc.)dont have to. It is very worth the $$ out.
:iagree: There's too much BS involved, not even including the scum.....
I would hire a lawyer as soon as you can.
Not to fight anything or even anticipate one, , but to be the buffer, answer all questions about the estate, take care of paperwork, etc..so YOU ( or your husband, etc.)dont have to. It is very worth the $$ out.
when Mrs. DAB's mom passed, Mrs. DAB had to hire a lawyer to act as a buffer with another family member who was inclined to cause trouble. helped walk us thru the required steps, didn't rape us, when all was done, ran about 2500 for his time and expertise, and making headaches go away.
Sounds like there is at least a house in the Estate. Time to retain a lawyer.:beat:
If there are no assets, screw it.
Petew1971
03-24-2011, 6:48pm
Sounds like there is at least a house in the Estate. Time to retain a lawyer.:beat:
If there are no assets, screw it.
:iagree:
Sounds like there is at least a house in the Estate. Time to retain a lawyer.:beat:
If there are no assets, screw it.
:iagree:
Barn Babe
03-24-2011, 6:50pm
Did your FIL have an advance directive filled out with his doctor or a medical care facility? The primary person named on his advance directive has authority over the disposition of the remains.
Never worry when some one tells you they are going to sue you. If they have a reason to sue you, they would have spoken with an attorney and the attorney would be notifying you you are being sued, not them.
Excellent point. As for the advance directive, I doubt there is one. He kept talking about a will, but there doesn't seem to be one of those, either.
powers of atty expire with the passing. so any POA that your FIL had is null and void now that he has passed.
without a will, the laws of intestate (law prescribes who gets what) prevail. without written directions, it's hard to insist that something is done or not done.
wish you well. :sadangel::sadangel:
please, get legal papers in order before it is too late.
as for debts, the personal representative (executor) will have to total up all assets as of the day of passing, and account to the probate court where it all went since then, and if there is not enough to pay all debts, then they will only get a pro-rata share of what is left.
Are you sure about the POA? The rest of this is what I really want to here, I hope it's fact. I'm not doubting you, I'm just so angry I can't see straight right now.
If she had power of attorney, there would be no need to sue as she would have cleaned him out prior to his death. Power of Attorney is nullified at the time of death.
Oh, she did! However, there is a partial check coming from his pension for the part of the month up to his death. There is also a VERY modest house to sell. We aren't planning on seeing a cent from this, we just want to get the legal mumbo-jumbo done so we can get on with our lives.
There is a probate attorney that they were already meeting with tomorrow...
good luck BB...hope your family can put these legal issues behind you quickly.
POAs are only effective when the preparer is still alive.
if you only have a will, then that takes over once you have passed.
if you have a will and a trust, commonly the Will will put all remaining assets in the trust, and the trust then takes over on what is to be done.
been thru this with my MIL, i know that the above is correct. any POA is now worthless.
call around, find some legal help. you have a legal problem, get legal help; same way if you have a dental problem you get a dentist.
Curvette
03-24-2011, 6:54pm
good luck BB...hope your family can put these legal issues behind you quickly.
:iagree:
Take care
MrPeabody
03-24-2011, 6:54pm
It is possible he had no AD, but by law any medical facility he is admitted to has to offer him one to fill out, and assistance in doing so. Check everywhere he's been. It is different than a will or power of attorney.
Millenium Vette
03-24-2011, 6:58pm
I'm not so sure I'd hire a lawyer just yet. The biggest deciding factor for me would be the net worth of the estate. From the sound of it, since he took out a reverse mortgage, accounts overdrawn etc. , it doesn't sound like he had very much left. The caregiver vultures can't come after the survivors, only the estate, and if there wasn't much left, there isn't much they can do. There is also the very real possibility if you do hire a lawyer that you'll wind up with a shitty one that just takes your money and doesn't do anything constructive to help the estate. If there is no money to get, the caregivers can't realistically do anything to you. On the other hand, if they had some shady dealings with his money, I wouldn't hesitate to look into having the proper authorities investigate them.
The most important thing is for you guys to try not to let this stress you out any more than you have to. You have lost a family member and the grief is enough to deal with, let alone people trying to fight and manipulate over money that isn't even there. :cheers:
Burro (He/Haw)
03-24-2011, 7:00pm
What a damn mess. All I can say is:
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj280/Dilemma_1962/Word.gif
xXBUDXx
03-24-2011, 7:03pm
I'm sorry about your loss, Michelle. AS stated above, time to lawyer up.
I'm not so sure I'd hire a lawyer just yet. The biggest deciding factor for me would be the net worth of the estate. From the sound of it, since he took out a reverse mortgage, accounts overdrawn etc. , it doesn't sound like he had very much left. The caregiver vultures can't come after the survivors, only the estate, and if there wasn't much left, there isn't much they can do. There is also the very real possibility if you do hire a lawyer that you'll wind up with a shitty one that just takes your money and doesn't do anything constructive to help the estate. If there is no money to get, the caregivers can't realistically do anything to you. On the other hand, if they had some shady dealings with his money, I wouldn't hesitate to look into having the proper authorities investigate them.
The most important thing is for you guys to try not to let this stress you out any more than you have to. You have lost a family member and the grief is enough to deal with, let alone people trying to fight and manipulate over money that isn't even there. :cheers:
good advice.
you're not on the hook for any debts, unless you co-signed. if the remaining estate is very modest, there isn't much to hassle over. but an hour with a lawyer to discuss where you stand is a good idea anyway. will put a lot of your questions to rest.
mrvette
03-24-2011, 7:06pm
BB, you all need get IN that house and go through it VERY carefully, money hidden away, safes under the carpeting, notes about money/valuables buried in back yard.....and GRAB it all, anything worth a flip that you all find....
pick it clean.....
all the rest is BS, and you DON't need a lawyer...you all can appear in the court to argue your case well as he can.....without a will, the judge will just distribute house proceeds fairly.....no sense in spending 5000 bux on some slick lawyer to do nothing....
You smart enough to read the damn englush language....
:lol::hurray::sadangel:
Jeff '79
03-24-2011, 7:06pm
Is there an executor ? It does not appear so from the fact that there is no will....POA expires, as stated above, with passing. If not, it will go to probate, and take up to a year to settle out. You really need to consult a lawyer if there is over 15k of assets to be had. Hell, it's your FIL, so you should be going for any inheritance, not the scum care giver, who was already paid.
Barn Babe
03-24-2011, 7:07pm
good advice.
you're not on the hook for any debts, unless you co-signed. if the remaining estate is very modest, there isn't much to hassle over. but an hour with a lawyer to discuss where you stand is a good idea anyway. will put a lot of your questions to rest.
They had made the appt with the attorney just to handle the probate stuff. This other nonsense started a couple of hours ago.
Barn Babe
03-24-2011, 7:08pm
BB, you all need get IN that house and go through it VERY carefully, money hidden away, safes under the carpeting, notes about money/valuables buried in back yard.....and GRAB it all, anything worth a flip that you all find....
pick it clean.....
all the rest is BS, and you DON't need a lawyer...you all can appear in the court to argue your case well as he can.....without a will, the judge will just distribute house proceeds fairly.....no sense in spending 5000 bux on some slick lawyer to do nothing....
You smart enough to read the damn englush language....
:lol::hurray::sadangel:
The house is in San Diego and we're in Texas and my BIL is in Idaho. They have been going thru the house already, knowing they would have to leave it empty for a few weeks.
lspencer534
03-24-2011, 7:12pm
BB, please consult with a lawyer. All POA's don't expire at death; there are "Durable" POA's. I don't think you have anything to worry about, but get 'comfort' advice from a lawyer. Also, different States have different rules about Advance Health Care Directives.
Millenium Vette
03-24-2011, 7:19pm
BB, you all need get IN that house and go through it VERY carefully, money hidden away, safes under the carpeting, notes about money/valuables buried in back yard.....and GRAB it all, anything worth a flip that you all find....
pick it clean.....
all the rest is BS, and you DON't need a lawyer...you all can appear in the court to argue your case well as he can.....without a will, the judge will just distribute house proceeds fairly.....no sense in spending 5000 bux on some slick lawyer to do nothing....
You smart enough to read the damn englush language....
:lol::hurray::sadangel:
:iagree:
mrvette is on the money on this one.
Whatever they do with the attorney tomorrow, make it crystal clear to him that if he is hired it is by the estate and not the survivors. Any legal fees come from the estate not the survivors. If the estate can't afford the lawyer you definitely don't need one then. :cheers:
I thought a Power of Attorney expired upon the death of the individual.
Millenium Vette
03-24-2011, 7:28pm
I thought a Power of Attorney expired upon the death of the individual.
Lspencer534 is an attorney, so he would know. One thing is for sure, if the estate is a mess, the mess is with the estate, not the survivors. They can't force any responsibility on the survivors.
sounds similar to the shit my fam went through when both grandpa and grandma passed away. It truly sucks, BB. :(
MrPeabody
03-24-2011, 7:35pm
This thread should be a warning to anyone who is an adult to get some paperwork in order to save your relatives a lot of problems. Don't think you don't need to do this until you are old and dying. Anyone of us could die tomorrow and an untimely death can create an even bigger mess than one that everyone knows was coming.
This thread should be a warning to anyone who is an adult to get some paperwork in order to save your relatives a lot of problems. Don't think you don't need to do this until you are old and dying. Anyone of us could die tomorrow and an untimely death can create an even bigger mess than one that everyone knows was coming.
I don't like the people I'll leave behind though.
:D
Millenium Vette
03-24-2011, 7:43pm
This thread should be a warning to anyone who is an adult to get some paperwork in order to save your relatives a lot of problems. Don't think you don't need to do this until you are old and dying. Anyone of us could die tomorrow and an untimely death can create an even bigger mess than one that everyone knows was coming.
:iagree:
Not just for the money aspect of it either. For parents with kids at home especially, you want to know if something happens to you who gets custody of them.
MrPeabody
03-24-2011, 7:51pm
I don't like the people I'll leave behind though.
:D
Then I would recommend that your advance directive say that you never want the plug pulled and you want everything possible done to keep you alive even if you are comatose or in a vegatative state.:D
Uncle Pervey
03-24-2011, 7:56pm
People are scum and unfortunately some of our own families can be the worst kind of scum.
My step-brother tried to bilk my Step-Dad out of $600K after he went into the nursing home with Alzheimer's. Luckily my Mother got wind of what was happening. He had the same name as his dad but he was Jr. He went to all the banks that my step-Dad had CD's with and cashed them in and converted them to his name by forging my mother's and his father's signatures.
One of the banks called my Mom and asked her if there was a particular problem of why she had moved their savings. My Mom exploded when she heard that, she immediately called her lawyer, the lawyer contacted the step-son and told him he had 3 hours to get to his office and start the process of converting the funds back to his Father or he would call the police. He did but it cost my Mom and Step-Dad multiple thousands of dollars in penalties and interest.
After that happened he never visited his father again in the Nursing home. 2 years later when he died, he didn't even go to his on Father's funeral.
My step-Dad left half of his estate to my Mom and the other half to his two adult grandchildren (the son's kids.)
For the next two years he threw one lawsuit after another, challenging the will, and generally making an ass out of himself. Finally my Mom and my niece and nephew's lawyer got him into arbitration and they settled with him for $30K with the agreement he'd not sue any of them again. All in all it cost my Mom about $15K in legal fees, to fight him and he had nothing to challenge the will on.
MrPeabody
03-24-2011, 8:02pm
My parents put a clause in their will that if anyone named in the will sues anyone else named in the will, their share of the estate becomes $1.
Saved a lot of trouble. I have one asshole brother who always likes to sue people (never wins) and this scared him off.
lspencer534
03-24-2011, 8:07pm
Lspencer534 is an attorney, so he would know. One thing is for sure, if the estate is a mess, the mess is with the estate, not the survivors. They can't force any responsibility on the survivors.
Thanks. What I said is true; there are "durable" powers of attorney that outlast death, but it varies from State to State. This is not a bad thing; I believe that States should have the right to make its own laws for its citizens.
GS Ragtop
03-24-2011, 8:09pm
I don't like the people I'll leave behind though.
:D
Just leave the bulk of your estate to the third person in the 'V' section of the current telephone book. That'll teach those bastard relatives... :D
Millenium Vette
03-24-2011, 8:15pm
I don't like the people I'll leave behind though.
:D
Just leave the bulk of your estate to the third person in the 'V' section of the current telephone book. That'll teach those bastard relatives... :D
Or leave it to someone with a 6.2LS or QE9 or whatever it is in their Kuro-assed PU truck and let them deal with that... :leaving:
I am leaving my BB to Rapid roger.:dance:
BADRACR1
03-24-2011, 9:14pm
Strike first, strike fast, and show no mercy. Get a lawyer asap.
Sorry for your loss BB.:sadangel:
73sbVert
03-24-2011, 10:27pm
...
Oh, she did! However, there is a partial check coming from his pension for the part of the month up to his death. There is also a VERY modest house to sell. We aren't planning on seeing a cent from this, we just want to get the legal mumbo-jumbo done so we can get on with our lives.
There is a probate attorney that they were already meeting with tomorrow...
Hey Michelle, do you or Jon (or anybody else) have a realtor in the SD area that you trust?
If not, my real estate lady in Ventura knows LOTS of folks, maybe in SD too. I can ask her who she would trust to maximize the return out of this if you'd like.
San Diego is still a decent real estate area. :yesnod:
She's very good at this.
Let me know!
Paul
Remember the bottomfeeders who have been bilking my FIL who passed away on Tuesday? Well, one of them showed up at the house today and informed my husband and his brother that they will be suing the estate for monies owed to them. The brothers don't have the money to bury their father so they are having him cremated. She has also informed them that SHE will be reporting THEM for elder abuse as he wanted to be buried.:beat: There is no will.
She says she has a "power of attorney" but I have no idea what it's for...
The brothers are changing the locks on the house but due to fly back on Saturday.
I've dealt with riff-raff before, but never anybody this extreme. Does anybody have any advice?
Power of attorney dies with the FIL, buncha BS. No will is going to complicate things, but this is where an estate lawyer earns his money.
When my FIL died we had a will but no trust in place so we had to probate. Part of the process is everyone waiving off except the executor (my wife). This included family who weren't in the will. This made them think they were entitled to some of the proceeds so they objected and slowed things down. My lawyer was a shark, kicked their ass and they got nothing. Money can really bring out the scumbag in a person.
Good Luck BB.
BuckyThreadkiller
03-25-2011, 8:23am
Good Luck to you guys BB.
If you need anything - holler.
Man that's an awesome idea!
We had that, but it didn't help against the challengers NOT named in the will. :beat:
oyealiz
03-25-2011, 8:35am
It's even worse when family members are the ugly vultures. :(
Sorry your husband's having to deal with this on top of the death of his father, BB.
A friend had a really horrible situation where his step dad became involved with his mom's caregiver. You talk about a mess when his mom passed away! :(
Yerf Dog
03-25-2011, 8:41am
One of the telling remarks is the threat to report elder abuse.
How do you abuse someone who's dead? Necrophilia aside.
Death of a family member brings out the worst in people. :(
It's even worse when family members are the ugly vultures. :(
Ben there. I am now an only child.:dance:
mrvette
03-25-2011, 9:01am
Ben there. I am now an only child.:dance:
What you do?? kill 'em???
:lol:
Bucwheat
03-25-2011, 11:13am
Pretty bad when family members have to act like this when A loved one dies.:sadangel:
Barn Babe
03-25-2011, 4:14pm
Hey Michelle, do you or Jon (or anybody else) have a realtor in the SD area that you trust?
If not, my real estate lady in Ventura knows LOTS of folks, maybe in SD too. I can ask her who she would trust to maximize the return out of this if you'd like.
San Diego is still a decent real estate area. :yesnod:
She's very good at this.
Let me know!
Paul
Thanks Paul, but we're using the realtor we used when we sold our house in San Diego. We really like her, so if anybody needs a realtor in San Diego let me know. :seeya:
What you do?? kill 'em???
:lol:
and ate 'em...them Buffalo winters are long and cold...gotta do what it takes to survive. :D
:dance:
Iron Chef
03-25-2011, 5:16pm
Good Luck to you guys BB.
If you need anything - holler.
:withstupid:
AND...
I've spent the better part of the last year plus untangling a fairly complicated estate. If you have questions that I can answer, I'd be happy to help.
Our family didn't have any of that drama when my mom died or when my dad died. The only drama came from the second wife that tried to take everything.
73sbVert
03-25-2011, 6:25pm
Thanks Paul, but we're using the realtor we used when we sold our house in San Diego. We really like her, so if anybody needs a realtor in San Diego let me know. :seeya:
Ok no prob! Thought I'd offer!
Hope all goes well, as well as they can anyway. :(
Iron Chef
03-25-2011, 6:31pm
Fortunately, my parents not only each had a will, but also a trust. My mom also signed powers of attorney, so everything is was in order. The only hassles I encountered were a few companies fighting over language of the trust itself. That was straightened out in short order. It IS a lot of work though. Death certificates, forms, copies, phone calls, etc. Still, better than probate.
I STRONGLY suggest anyone with assets to prepare these documents years...even decades...in advance of time of need. You'll be glad you did, and so will your children.
The only thing I ever heard from the ex (and this was second hand) was that she was mad that she wasn't getting the $$$ she thought she deserved. Uh...sorry...but even if we were still married, things like this aren't considered community property. :D
Blademaker
03-25-2011, 6:36pm
I would hire a lawyer as soon as you can.
Not to fight anything or even anticipate one, , but to be the buffer, answer all questions about the estate, take care of paperwork, etc..so YOU ( or your husband, etc.)dont have to. It is very worth the $$ out.
:iagree:
But still...........People disappear all the time.
Barn Babe
03-26-2011, 9:32am
Fortunately, Jon and his brother are getting along as well as can be expected. There have been a couple of blow-ups, but those were due to the stress of the situation and they aren't fighting over any "stuff." They are both good people and just want to get the legal mumbo-jumbo over with.
I appreciate all of the help, both here and in PM's. There are some truly great people here and I am blessed to know you both online and in real life.
MEC5LADY
03-26-2011, 1:00pm
I hate bottom feeders. I can't tell you how many times through the years I would take extra time with some of my patients and talk to them just so they would know that somebody cared. No visits from family or friends until the nurses call to say they are ready to pass on and then it's one big cry fest. Friggen azzhats boo hooing all over the place makes me want to puke on them. I can't tell you how hard it is for me to bite my lip from yelling at them "where the feck were you when they needed you the most you worthless pieces of shiot".
I just hope that Kharma comes and bites your FIL's "caregivers" in the azz in the worst way. We went through the exact same thing with my uncle except they were able to get a nice payday. Last I heard they blew through the money and came upon hard times with their health.
Chris Fowler
03-26-2011, 1:31pm
So glad my sister and I are both sane.
When my grandmother finally sold her house and moved into a nursing home she split her money with her children (5) and grand children (10) and gave it all out. My uncle set aside each of those accounts with the interest set to roll over to my grandmother's account to pay for her care. When she does pass it will be pretty much done already.
My other grandmother has been handing out her money in chunks at Christmas to minimize what will be left to fight over...the remainder could get interesting, though...
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