Pistol training?

[DAB]

got an email from our local range, they have a pistol training course coming up the end of next month. i'll be out of town that weekend, so it's a no-go for me personally. but what gets me is the promised content of the course.

from the course description:

"WHAT YOU’LL LEARN:
 Safety – first and foremost, it is essential to understand and employ all aspects of firearm safety.
 Weapon Handling and Manipulation
 Fundamentals of Marksmanship
 Firing from the Ready Position
 Drawing from the Holster and Firing
 Firing from Contact Range
 Firing with Movement
 Clearing Malfunctions
 Cover
 Shotgun and Rifle Familiarization"

now, i'm pretty familiar with firearms, and i'm pretty familiar with all of the topics listed. regularly compete in IDPA matches which involve all of the above except use of rifles and shotguns.

1/2 day in the classroom, 2 full days on the range. provide your own gear and ammo (bring 500 rounds they say).

for..... $200.

:faint:

add up the course fee and the ammo cost and you are well on your way to another pistol someday.

sorry kids, i'd pass even if i was in town that weekend.

:DAB:

[Mike Mercury]

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads26/hlxIr14924773781493112987.jpg

[VITE1]

I've taken several classes like those over the years. What I liked was that stress levels they put you under to try and get you as amped up as possible.

[PLRX]

https://static.dvidshub.net/media/thumbs/photos/1507/2081552/1000w_q95.jpg

I bet I'm rusty as hell, but proper shooting is riding a bicycle.

[DAB]

i've read the course descriptions for several schools (pistol training), and they all are very similar, vague scopes of instruction, very few concrete promises.

the most concrete one i've come across was that after $1000 and 2 days, you would be able to draw and fire 2 shots in under 1.5 seconds.

well, if i can already do that, can i skip the class and get my certificate now? :dance:

[Norm]

42 years of local, military, and federal positions of carrying a firearm, 2 - 4 times a year certifying, qualifying, change overs and upgrades........I'm ranged out. My muscle memory is so ingrained, I can't wipe my ass without drawing first............:D

[allthrottleandsomebottle]

One can never have to much practice until it becomes second nature.........$200 is ok if it's their ammo and guns :D

[PLRX]

I can't wipe my ass without drawing first............:D

Do you shit with your gun in hand? :rofl:

[Norm]

Do you shit with your gun in hand? :rofl:

I'm ambi ambi, I can wipe with either with the same dexterity.....:D

[DAB]

One can never have to much practice until it becomes second nature.........$200 is ok if it's their ammo and guns :D

Bring your own gear and ammo.

[markids77]

Check tuition at places like Front Sight or Gunsite. Even if Mas Ayoob isn't your range master $200 for 2 and a half days of drills seems a fair deal. I know for a fact putting 500 rounds downrange in that time would make Markie a sore boy as I don't shoot nearly as regularly as I once did.

[DAB]

I shoot 300-400 in a few hours myself.

I missed expert by 9.90 seconds last match. With no formal training.

You don't bump two levels in two days.

[markids77]

I shoot 300-400 in a few hours myself.

I missed expert by 9.90 seconds last match. With no formal training.

You don't bump two levels in two days.

And I won two of three venues at the last tourney I attended and tied for second on the third. Walked in cold and shot the entire course with full house 357 mags since I only showed up for some range time. I too have no formal training but that is not my point.

I don't shoot tactical matches often so presenting from holstered or from cover would be a good experience for me. Sure I could just head out and practice but I think I might just learn something unless the instructors are just a bunch of yahoos. Your experience is probably a bit outside the "norm" for many recreational shooters.

[DAB]

Seems most instructors teach offensive tactics, but as a CCW holder, I'm more interested in defensive practices.

I'm not going to clear a house with a partner.

I'm either staying put or fleeing.

[VITE1]

The classes I've taken were defensive in nature. Use of cover, movement, firing strong and weak hand under pressure, firing different handguns while rushing through a set of stationary and moving targets.

I learned a good deal and I'd go again if I could find a place near by here in Florida.

[8Up]

The real question is Weaver or Modified Weaver. Go.

[DAB]

When you are moving or leaning, you don't get time to get a textbook stance.

Put the sights on the target and pull the trigger without moving the sights and you'll hit your target.

[Jeff '79]

Seems most instructors teach offensive tactics, but as a CCW holder, I'm more interested in defensive practices.

I'm not going to clear a house with a partner.

I'm either staying put or fleeing.

Damn right.
Find cover, wait if you can, and hope the threat leaves.
It's when a quick draw in a stressful situation becomes necessary. That's when these classes come into play and help.
Without follow up practice, however, I feel that the skills don't become muscle memory, which as you know, is what everyone strives for.
We, who shoot regularly at a range or home, don't really face stress. Shooting at your leisure is easy. Shooting, clearing, and reloading under stress is an entirely different ball game.

[DAB]

And is why I find shooting IDPA matches fun and useful.

[Jeff '79]

And is why I find shooting IDPA matches fun and useful.

:yesnod: When I first started shooting against others, I couldn't believe how nervous that I was and how difficult it was to achieve a good time.
After the third week, I settled in and it got "natural", for lack of a better word.
Depending on the firearm, I can be very efficient. Fast enough, but accurate.
There are guys there that can unload a 10 round mag accurately like a full auto, fast. I'm not close to that.

[markids77]

A very famous lawman once wrote: Speed is fine. Accuracy is final. Words to live by.

[Jeff '79]

A very famous lawman once wrote: Speed is fine. Accuracy is final. Words to live by.

:iagree:
I'd rather take the extra milisecond to be on target, than let it get out of hand, trying to squeeze off as many as I can in the fastest amount of time.
Ya, there are people that can do the speed thing, but odds are, he won't be the one you're up against if it comes down to brass tacks...

[VITE1]

:iagree:
I'd rather take the extra milisecond to be on target, than let it get out of hand, trying to squeeze off as many as I can in the fastest amount of time.
Ya, there are people that can do the speed thing, but odds are, he won't be the one you're up against if it comes down to brass tacks...

My father taught me that getting off the first shot was not important, making the first shot hit a in the kill zone was. He always said to take that millisecond of extra time to make it on target.

He had a reputation in close combat for putting the bad guys down and never getting a scratch.

[DAB]

at most matches the stages are "unlimited", you can fire as many shots at a target as you wish to get good hits. there are a max of 18 required shots on any stage, but you only get to start with a max of 31 rounds (1 in chamber, 10 in mag, plus 2 reloads of 10 each). so in theory you have 13 spare rounds to make up misses. but i've run out before and i've seen others run out as well.

for the Classifier (which i shot and missed Expert by 9.90 seconds), you are not allowed any make up shots, it's what's called "limited". if a target is supposed to get 2 shots, you can only fire 2 shots at it. if you miss, so sad, too bad, 5 points down for each miss. don't miss. :slap:

it's a total of 72 shots, 3 stages of 24 shots (2 stages with 3 draws, 1 stage with 2 draws). pretty good test of your ability. each point adds 1 second to your score. i missed 23 points last go around.

:DAB:

[allthrottleandsomebottle]

Bring your own gear and ammo.

That was a joke about the cost, the real test is when you train with your non dominant side like the preferred hand/arm/wrist has been injured :cert:

[DAB]

That was a joke about the cost, the real test is when you train with your non dominant side like the preferred hand/arm/wrist has been injured :cert:

part of the Classifier is weak hand shooting. i do it now and then. also strong hand only.

[Norm]

That was a joke about the cost, the real test is when you train with your non dominant side like the preferred hand/arm/wrist has been injured :cert:

12 rounds down range, 15 seconds, 6 rounds strong hand, combat reload, 6 rounds weak hand, holster..........and again, and again, and ag........

[DAB]

12 rounds down range, 15 seconds, 6 rounds strong hand, combat reload, 6 rounds weak hand, holster..........and again, and again, and ag........

you could combine that with the el Presidente drill:

10 yards, 3 targets 2 yards apart, facing away from targets. on signal, turn, draw, engage each with 2 shots, slide lock reload, repeat with 2 shots each.

i can do that in about 12 seconds, 10+ if i really hustle (but accuracy decays too much).

might try strong hand/ weak hand variant of that next time out.