Worked on the Olds today -- it's ready now

[JRD77VET]

Went out to Rough and Tumble today and worked some more on the Olds. After I ran it last week ( it fired once with fuel added to the combustion chamber ) it had a slight valve leak due to a piece of carbon breaking free.

Since I had to pull the intake valve cage ( two bolts and a cotter pin to get it out ), I lapped the valve and seat and it works perfect now. :hurray:

Then I added some fuel to the tank which is actually the cast iron base it sits on. I used camp stove fuel since it's low octane ( like the fuel back at the turn of the previous century ) and doesn't have any ethanol to screw up things.

The plan was to add fuel and make sure the pump actually pumped fuel out. There is a handle to manually work the fuel to prime it. Well, I pumped and pumped, then added some more fuel but no fuel came out.

A took off the caps at the check valves and verified they worked ( they did ). After priming the check valves, it did pump that fuel out.

Then I asked Bill for some help and after trying a few things, we stuck a wire down the pipe in the back for the fuel pump. ( red arrow )

It supposed to go down as far as the green arrow. :yesnod:

But it stops at the yellow arrow :banghead:

Must come up with plan B or plan C. B would be to cut both pipes and replace them as it doesn't slide up anymore ( I don't understand why, how much could it really corrode in a 110 years? :confused5: )

C would be to slide a thin wall brass thru the existing pipe to the bottom of the fuel tank.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/JRD77VET/hit%20and%20miss/pics/Olds%205%20-%207%20hp/5-7%20hp%20Olds/59f5606f-f904-40c9-b9f8-a7b02f62b269.jpg~original

[mrvette]

Option C and I bet you find some insect all purrfectly preserved in there.....


:lol:

[simpleman68]

Maybe a small snake of sorts like a pipe cleaner that can be used to clean out the debris?
I'm thinking a small gauge wire inserted into a drill chuck and spin it into the hole.

Scott

[Jeff '79]

Is that pipe brass, cast, galvanized, or copper ?
I wonder if there is a screen to stop debris where it is stopping.

[OddBall]

'Stops', as in the pipe's length stops at the yellow arrow? Or plugged up?

If it just ends at the yellow arrow, can you replace it? If not, (or not wanting to replace original parts) can it be lengthened; such as welding/brazing another section of pipe to the end in the case.

If it's just plugged, can you just ream/drill it out with a long bit?

I tend to think your brass insert idea is the best though.

[JRD77VET]

Maybe a small snake of sorts like a pipe cleaner that can be used to clean out the debris?
I'm thinking a small gauge wire inserted into a drill chuck and spin it into the hole.

Scott

I can touch the bottom of the tank thru the check valve and pipe. The problem is the pipe is broken off at the yellow arrow.

To over simplify, the pipe doesn't reach the fuel anymore

Is that pipe brass, cast, galvanized, or copper ?
I wonder if there is a screen to stop debris where it is stopping.

Even better, it's wrought iron.

'Stops', as in the pipe's length stops at the yellow arrow? Or plugged up?

If it just ends at the yellow arrow, can you replace it? If not, (or not wanting to replace original parts) can it be lengthened; such as welding/brazing another section of pipe to the end in the case.

If it's just plugged, can you just ream/drill it out with a long bit?

I tend to think your brass insert idea is the best though.

I'm doing my best to keep it as original as possible. The pipe ends at the yellow arrow instead of going down to almost the bottom.

I can get thin wall brass tubing for from www.mscdirect.com for literally a few dollars a foot. ( plus shipping ) My friend Roger will get measurements next weekend and I'll buy the right size tubing and some fuel resistant epoxy to keep it in place.

That way it will still look original and it will work. :yesnod:

[DAB]

likely rusted off long ago.

[JRD77VET]

likely rusted off long ago.

:iagree: Or the 75 mile journey on the trailer broke it free.

One of the guys who shows up on work days ( first saturday every month ) has an inspection camera that fit in the 3/4" gas fill hole.

We saw one pipe in the tank but I just "assumed" it was the pick up since the other pipe is the overflow. Why have that come so close to the bottom :dunno:

It seems it was the overflow I saw :banghead:

[JRD77VET]

Went back out to Rough and Tumble today and had some success. I purchased a piece of thin wall brass tubing , 1/4" OD with a .014 ( about 1/64th ) thick wall and put that in the tube with the arrows. The tubing starts just above the red arrow and goes down to about where the green arrow is.

The tubing was "extremely expensive". It was $2.21 ( plus shipping ), took about 8 minutes to install including using a 10" long 1/4" drill bit to make sure it would go thru the original pipe. :dance:

The good news is it works perfectly, I had fuel flowing with six pumps of the priming handle. :hurray:

Worked on getting it started and after it ran for about 15 seconds, fuel was spraying out of the vent as the return tube was not flowing freely. :willy:

Blue arrow at top was where I had a 2' tall spray of flammable mist blowing out. :leaving:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/JRD77VET/hit%20and%20miss/pics/Olds%205%20-%207%20hp/5-7%20hp%20Olds/fca7ec9c-b07e-4963-8db9-e182b2d99a64.jpg~original

Another slight problem was the governor spring is just a bit heavy allowing the engine to run at the top of the allowable RPM range. A lighter spring will be the fix for that issue. :seasix:

I removed the vent ( where the fuel mist was spraying out ) and was able to run a heavy wire down and get that flowing correctly again.

I have an old cooling tank for it ( Roger isn't sure if it is the original cooling tank but it is the correct vintage, it's a riveted tank )

I put that in place and measured for the hold downs.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/JRD77VET/hit%20and%20miss/pics/Olds%205%20-%207%20hp/5-7%20hp%20Olds/DSC02379.jpg~original

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/JRD77VET/hit%20and%20miss/pics/Olds%205%20-%207%20hp/5-7%20hp%20Olds/DSC02380.jpg~original

Overall it was a very good day and it should be running for the Spring Steam Up show in May.

Also, Matt came up with a piece of 2" flexible stainless steel exhaust tubing so we can hook up to the under floor exhaust pipe. No only will it be quiet but I won't be fuming everyone out. :D

[OddBall]

So did you hold your hands in that that 2" fuel mist to help cut all the grease on your hands?
C'mon, you know you did. :D

[JRD77VET]

So did you hold your hands in that that 2" fuel mist to help cut all the grease on your hands?
C'mon, you know you did. :D

2 FEET in the air, not 2 inches. For some odd reason everyone was making a mad dash to the battery to stop the sparking :lol:

Besides, I'll use GoJo, it's a LOT safer and doesn't explode :D

[markids77]

Elegant solutions to difficult problems.

[simpleman68]

I removed the vent ( where the fuel mist was spraying out ) and was able to run a heavy wire down and get that flowing correctly again.




Good ole' redneck ingenuity :D
I was wondering if that would have worked for the original tube that was blocked halfway down.
Probably not as a thin enough wire to get down the passage would not have the strength to clear the clog.
Scott

[JRD77VET]

Good ole' redneck ingenuity :D
I was wondering if that would have worked for the original tube that was blocked halfway down.
Probably not as a thin enough wire to get down the passage would not have the strength to clear the clog.
Scott

I tried some .030 MIG wire but that wasn't getting it done. They had some 14 gauge wire ( .080 thick -just under 3/32 ) and that did the trick. Having is soak in fuel for a bit probably helped too.

It would have been faster from the start to just replace the pipes but I want to keep it as original as possible.

It's only original once :yesnod:

[DAB]

So a flaming vent is bad?!

Bet it would have looked awesome on video. :slap:

"No ma'am, that's normal, it's how they kept the shop warm."

:dance:

[JRD77VET]

So a flaming vent is bad?!

Bet it would have looked awesome on video. :slap:

"No ma'am, that's normal, it's how they kept the shop warm."

:dance:

Uncontrolled fire is bad. If you look at the bottom picture, there is a fire extinguisher right by the door at the Olds :hurray:

[OddBall]

2 FEET in the air, not 2 inches. For some odd reason everyone was making a mad dash to the battery to stop the sparking :lol:

Besides, I'll use GoJo, it's a LOT safer and doesn't explode :D

:funnier:

[JRD77VET]

Went out again today and actually got work done although it really didn't look like much :crazy:

First thing I did was remove the intake valve cage and run a tap into the holes at the red arrows. I also ran a die over the original bolts.

I would have done this the previous trip but it's "old school" threads and they were 1/2-12NC instead of the modern 1/2-13NC ( this was made before they standardized threads )

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/JRD77VET/hit%20and%20miss/pics/Olds%205%20-%207%20hp/5-7%20hp%20Olds/9518c8a1-a1d5-4c43-81a1-8f1fd1edf0c2.jpg~original

Next on the list was figuring out how I was going to run the exhaust into the below floor piping system we have. The exhaust uses 2" NPT piping so we cut some pipe and threaded it on the Rigid Pipe Threaded ( let me rephrase, the POWERED pipe threader :hurray: ) and mocked it up.

As shown below, we made a longer down pipe, used the original beaded 90* elbow, a 3" long connector pipe and the into a flanged 90* elbow.

The flanged elbow bolts to a stainless steel flex which we had out at R&T. I was very happy we had that as that is a $250 to $300 part :ack:

I will remove the right flange and weld a piece of 2" pipe which I will turn down ( reduce diameter ) to connect to an upright out of the exhaust pipe.

Where the green dot is, I will hole saw a 3" hole in the pipe and then I will mig weld a 2" NPT coupler into the hole. The outside diameter is 2-7/8" so it will be very easy to weld in place. The coupler ( yellow arrow ) is what gets welded into the hole.

Then a piece of pipe will be screwed into the connector with a 90* elbow ( far left ) to connect to the flex.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/JRD77VET/hit%20and%20miss/pics/Olds%205%20-%207%20hp/5-7%20hp%20Olds/DSC02381.jpg~original

I got some material at work ( which my new boss GAVE to me :cool1: ) to make the hold downs for the cooling tank. I threaded the ends and then took them back into work and they bent the ends for me.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/JRD77VET/hit%20and%20miss/pics/Olds%205%20-%207%20hp/5-7%20hp%20Olds/DSC02382.jpg~original

I squeezed the ends in using a vise and then cut them off shorter. ( by leaving them long, it made it much easier for the guys to put the bend on them )
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/JRD77VET/hit%20and%20miss/pics/Olds%205%20-%207%20hp/5-7%20hp%20Olds/DSC02384.jpg~original

Now it's mounted solidly :yesnod:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/JRD77VET/hit%20and%20miss/pics/Olds%205%20-%207%20hp/5-7%20hp%20Olds/DSC02383.jpg~original

[Jeff '79]

Wow... That takes some skillz....
I'm looking forward to the appearance of the finished product.

[JRD77VET]

Wow... That takes some skillz....
I'm looking forward to the appearance of the finished product.

Although the original appearance is important, I want to run it longer than 10-15 seconds it's done so far.

It's so close.... :yesnod:

[OddBall]

:cool1: :waiting:

[SnikPlosskin]

Why does this turn me on so much?

[JRD77VET]

Why does this turn me on so much?

It's the musical aspect of it :yesnod:

Huge Hot Bulb Engine Blues!! Old school drum machine with 1930's Dobro & mandolin. - YouTube

[JRD77VET]

Just got done welding the 2" NPT pipe thread end onto the flex coupler. It's some type of unknown stainless steel so I got a piece of 1/16" diameter 309 stainless TIG wire and welded it to the steel pipe. Not the prettiest weld I've even done but it will hold. :yesnod:

[JRD77VET]

Went back out to Rough & Tumble today and got some work done on the Olds. :hurray:

Tom brought a 3" holesaw and we cut a hole in the under floor exhaust piping. Tom did the drilling and I was spraying cutting lube on the hole saw to keep it from burning up. That is the fastest 1/2" drill I ever saw. :willy:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/JRD77VET/hit%20and%20miss/pics/Olds%205%20-%207%20hp/5-7%20hp%20Olds/DSC02386.jpg~original

The fitting measured 2-7/8" so I had a nice gap all around which was quite easy to fill with weld with my Hobart Handler 187 mig welder. Tom was nice enough to handle wiring up the 220VAC single phase.

In the picture below is the finished hook up. We used a piece of 2" NPT pipe to come down from the head, used the original beaded 90* elbow, a short connector into a 2" flanged 90* hook up. Then is the flex connector I welded the 2" NPT pipe, another 90* elbow and a 9" long pipe into the fitting I welded in the exhaust piping.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/JRD77VET/hit%20and%20miss/pics/Olds%205%20-%207%20hp/5-7%20hp%20Olds/DSC02387.jpg~original

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/JRD77VET/hit%20and%20miss/pics/Olds%205%20-%207%20hp/5-7%20hp%20Olds/DSC02395.jpg~original

After lunch, it was time to mount the brackets for the shelf. The wall studs are on 24" centers ( or there abouts :cuss: ) so after a few extra tries, I finally got them attached solidly.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/JRD77VET/hit%20and%20miss/pics/Olds%205%20-%207%20hp/5-7%20hp%20Olds/DSC02391.jpg~original

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/JRD77VET/hit%20and%20miss/pics/Olds%205%20-%207%20hp/5-7%20hp%20Olds/DSC02389.jpg~original

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/JRD77VET/hit%20and%20miss/pics/Olds%205%20-%207%20hp/5-7%20hp%20Olds/DSC02388.jpg~original

All that is left is final wiring with period correct type wires and hooking up the water piping for cooling. :dance:

[Bucwheat]

Is that pipe brass, cast, galvanized, or copper ?
I wonder if there is a screen to stop debris where it is stopping.

That's what I was thinking.

[JRD77VET]

Is that pipe brass, cast, galvanized, or copper ?
I wonder if there is a screen to stop debris where it is stopping.

That's what I was thinking.


Even better, it's wrought iron.





The pick up tube was broken off flush with the bottom of the engine casting/top of the fuel tank. I got a piece of thin wall tubing and sleeved the original pipe for a work around. That way I kept the original pipe.

[JRD77VET]

The Olds is ready for the Spring Steam Up Show next Friday and Saturday :hurray:

I was able to get out again today. I put some oak 4x4s under the original skids
and now it sits on rubber pads ( to keep it from moving when it runs ). I bolted the 4x4s in place, put up the shelf, ran the wiring using vintage wires with porcelain knobs and got a cooling system hooked up.

I ran out of time to hookup the cooling tank so I just hooked it into the building water system. A hose connects from the faucet to the underside of the water jacket. Water will circulate around the cylinder and dump out a hose back into the recirculated water system.

No I just have to hope I can get it started with people watching :lol:

[MrPeabody]

Have you started it yet? Video, of course, please, when you do.:seasix:

[JRD77VET]

Have you started it yet? Video, of course, please, when you do.:seasix:

I'm hoping I can get out to the show on Saturday. ( I have to drive my wife everywhere due to her cataracts ) Once I get it running, I will take video.

I know you'll find this hard to believe but there aren't ANY No 5, Type A Olds like mine on YouTube :crazy:

I can't wait to sit and watch it run myself. :yesnod:

[Jeff '79]

What is the original purpose of that?
Is it a generator ?

[JRD77VET]

What is the original purpose of that?
Is it a generator ?

Operate farm equipment or other mechanical devices. This engine came off a farm a couple miles from where I grew up. It was used to grind feed, cut wood and may have been used to pump water too.

It wasn't used hard or abused as it is still in very good condition.

[JRD77VET]

One of the guys made a display sign with all the info on it.

[Jeff '79]

Operate farm equipment or other mechanical devices. This engine came off a farm a couple miles from where I grew up. It was used to grind feed, cut wood and may have been used to pump water too.

It wasn't used hard or abused as it is still in very good condition.

Nice sign.
So it's inside.
Was it run inside originally?
Did the exhaust fumes get piped outdoors?
The sign said it runs on gasoline, so is running it inside normal for that?

[JRD77VET]

Nice sign.
So it's inside.
Was it run inside originally?
Did the exhaust fumes get piped outdoors?
The sign said it runs on gasoline, so is running it inside normal for that?

Most farms had an engine shed. That protected the engine from the elements and most times the engine exhaust was plumbed outside. Sometimes the engine was just under a roof and then a muffler was used.

Since my engine is inside, I hooked it up to the Willock Building exhaust piping. The previous trip I brought out my welder and welded a fitting into the pipe to hook it up.

[Jeff '79]

Most farms had an engine shed. That protected the engine from the elements and most times the engine exhaust was plumbed outside. Sometimes the engine was just under a roof and then a muffler was used.

Since my engine is inside, I hooked it up to the Willock Building exhaust piping. The previous trip I brought out my welder and welded a fitting into the pipe to hook it up.

Ahhh, I did not know any of that.

[JRD77VET]

Ahhh, I did not know any of that.

Here's some picture of the engine shed from across the road where I grew up. The 5 hp Challenge engine was purchased in 1903 ( 10% discount for cash ) and has been in that same spot since brand new. ( the dealer is still in business and sells Cadillacs and Hondas )

The engine is hooked up to an overhead line shaft and the lever goes from freewheeling to power by moving the belt.

Numerous belts depending on where the machinery is to be used.

Barn side first pic for outside pulley and driveway side for last picture.