So, I got the free Full Self driving trial this morning

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by ptindall

This is the very predictable result I posted about probably eight years ago now. You cannot have a system that requires no attention 99.9% of the time but requires immediate intervention .1% of the time. Such a system is inherently dangerous because it ignores the realities of human nature.

But... but... you have to touch a button saying that you'll pay attention!!!!

[ThePirate]

I paid $99.00 to use the FSD for a month. I enjoyed it very much except for a few problems. Most here simply want to argue with EV drivers about things other than FSD on EVs. I found the experience like a one-trick pony. It was fun, amazing, and scary - all at once. I wouldn't take my hands off the steering wheel for a second. BUT once you verbally tell the car where you want to go, it gets you there. Stops at red lights. Starts when the light turns green when yoiu're the first in line or when the cars in front of you start. Changes lanes when traffic in the lane you are in is going too slow.Turns on turn signal when changing, when it's getting off at an exit and does it safely.


Now saying all that I wouldn't get in the back seat and let the car drive itself. I had a couple of phantom braking occurences when the road ahead presented some unusual situattions. On one occasion when going down the road, a carwwas turning left and crossing my lane about 400 yards in front of me and my car started braking - not slamming on the brakes but slowing down when nnot expected.


The other braking problem I experienced was on a divided highway with a street coming from the right. Also there was a vegetable vendor just off my lane also about 400 yds ahead with cars around it off the road.. My car started braking, vearing left and right slightly while the FSD driving was trying to figure out what was in front of it. It was no where near what you could say was out of control - more like an old lady driver. Neither event was dangerous, just unexpected. I took control each time, and I'm sure that the car would have returned to regular speed had I not took over. No danger at all. Getting on and off the highway, making turns when it should have, speeding up and slowing down perfectly was fun.

Originally Posted by Steve_R

So how can it work when there are temporary lane restrictions, lower speed limits, etc. for short term work, an accident, etc? Those aren't, and can't be, in any database.

There were a couple of lanes barricaded during my trip and the car handled everyone perfectly. Cones, Jersey barricades, etc were all handled just as I would have steered though them. It does make you nervous when it is doing the actual driving though.

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

It reads the signs and recognizes barriers without an issue. It just has issues with CONDITIONAL signs like the one with a flashing light.
I have taken FSD through construction zones with barriers and temporary speed limits and the car handled it just fine.

Agree.

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

You are living in the past. Phantom braking is long gone. It was a thing for a while after they got rid of Lidar.
Of course they shouldn't have liability if driver fails to monitor the system as required. It is a beta product. You can choose not to use it. It's completely optional. The only way to refine the system is with more real world data and the only way to get that data is with a large number of drivers using it.

Phantom braking still exists but not when you simply are driving down the road. It never slammed the brakes on but slowed down quickly. There has to be something going on that would cause you to slowdown yourself without FSD.

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

That's not phantom braking. That is justified braking. Phantom braking is when the car brakes for an apparent reason. A construction zone or an emergency vehicle on the side of the road is a VALID reason to slow down. Obviously, I'm not talking about cones on the SIDE of the road but in one of the travel lanes, something that happens when there is construction.

I'd call phantom braking slowing down quickly and safely.


All this being said I did not renew it for the next month. Too much of a novelty now. Plus my AH was puckered up much of the time, worried that the car would simply drive off the road, or into the car ahead of you. BUT it never did anything stupid or dangerous. AT 80 mph with a semi on my left and barricades making you merge on my right it handled well but I was ready to takeover in an instant - not relaxing.



My most obvious bitch was that the car wouldn't go faster than the speed limit until I discovered how to adjust it to do so. Once I set it up it would go as fast as the car in front of me, or if that car was going slower than I wanted, it automatically changed lanes, sped up to my set speed, and continued down the road very safely.

[RedLS1GTO]

Look at that... someone came along and gave an actual honest assessment and first hand information with positive and negative aspects as opposed to dismissing all of the negatives or twisting and deflecting them into some asinine strawman.


I guess it actually can be done.

[dvarapala]

Originally Posted by LATB

Where am I paying a monthly bill and being tracked?

No cell phone old man? Just a land line?

[dvarapala]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

Your phone is still listening to you and your location is being tracked, even if GPS is off.

And if you're using a regular Android phone or an iPhone then Google and/or Apple still track you - because the privacy settings only apply to third-party apps, not to Goole or Apple themselves.

[dvarapala]

Originally Posted by Steve_R

My smartphone camera is not watching me. I’m sure.

Electrical tape FTW.

[LATB]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

AT THE CLOSING, nobody or virtually nobody reads the entire documents like all the title stuff etc. Most TRUST their title agent that what you are signing is the same as what you reviewed at home prior to the closing. You are NOT signing the copy that was sent to you. You are signing the copy that is presented to you at the closing. While unlikely, it could be different.

You are completely WRONG. Maybe YOU don't read the documents at the closing table, but most do. Not "nobody or virtually nobody".

Again most are done remotely either via a mailout package or through electronic signatures via DocuSign or a similar program.

If you believe that there is a possibility that what you were sent for review prior to closing is different, then you should absolutely read the documents before signing.

How many real estate closings have you been a party to? And how long ago was your last closing?

[LATB]

Originally Posted by Big bob

You have a cell phone?

Originally Posted by dvarapala

No cell phone old man? Just a land line?

Yes I have an Iphone.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by ThePirate

I paid $99.00 to use the FSD for a month. I enjoyed it very much except for a few problems. Most here simply want to argue with EV drivers about things other than FSD on EVs. I found the experience like a one-trick pony. It was fun, amazing, and scary - all at once. I wouldn't take my hands off the steering wheel for a second. BUT once you verbally tell the car where you want to go, it gets you there. Stops at red lights. Starts when the light turns green when yoiu're the first in line or when the cars in front of you start. Changes lanes when traffic in the lane you are in is going too slow.Turns on turn signal when changing, when it's getting off at an exit and does it safely.


Now saying all that I wouldn't get in the back seat and let the car drive itself. I had a couple of phantom braking occurences when the road ahead presented some unusual situattions. On one occasion when going down the road, a carwwas turning left and crossing my lane about 400 yards in front of me and my car started braking - not slamming on the brakes but slowing down when nnot expected.


The other braking problem I experienced was on a divided highway with a street coming from the right. Also there was a vegetable vendor just off my lane also about 400 yds ahead with cars around it off the road.. My car started braking, vearing left and right slightly while the FSD driving was trying to figure out what was in front of it. It was no where near what you could say was out of control - more like an old lady driver. Neither event was dangerous, just unexpected. I took control each time, and I'm sure that the car would have returned to regular speed had I not took over. No danger at all. Getting on and off the highway, making turns when it should have, speeding up and slowing down perfectly was fun.






There were a couple of lanes barricaded during my trip and the car handled everyone perfectly. Cones, Jersey barricades, etc were all handled just as I would have steered though them. It does make you nervous when it is doing the actual driving though.





Agree.





Phantom braking still exists but not when you simply are driving down the road. It never slammed the brakes on but slowed down quickly. There has to be something going on that would cause you to slowdown yourself without FSD.






I'd call phantom braking slowing down quickly and safely.


All this being said I did not renew it for the next month. Too much of a novelty now. Plus my AH was puckered up much of the time, worried that the car would simply drive off the road, or into the car ahead of you. BUT it never did anything stupid or dangerous. AT 80 mph with a semi on my left and barricades making you merge on my right it handled well but I was ready to takeover in an instant - not relaxing.



My most obvious bitch was that the car wouldn't go faster than the speed limit until I discovered how to adjust it to do so. Once I set it up it would go as fast as the car in front of me, or if that car was going slower than I wanted, it automatically changed lanes, sped up to my set speed, and continued down the road very safely.

I do find it to be cool technology. Not yet ready for prime time but getting closer. I will only pay for ut one it is outof Beta. Only time I had to take it off FSD was at the school zone. Other than that, the only issue I ran into was indecisiveness when merging. Almost took over as FSD waited a while to finally merge.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by LATB

You are completely WRONG. Maybe YOU don't read the documents at the closing table, but most do. Not "nobody or virtually nobody".

Again most are done remotely either via a mailout package or through electronic signatures via DocuSign or a similar program.

If you believe that there is a possibility that what you were sent for review prior to closing is different, then you should absolutely read the documents before signing.

How many real estate closings have you been a party to? And how long ago was your last closing?

I've been at about 20 closings, most of them were my own but also went to the closing of purchase and sale of my parents condo. I have no reason to suspect that they would change anything in the docs. I reviewed the docs sent to me but not at the closings.
Edit.. just did the math. It was about 20 closings.

[Big bob]

Originally Posted by LATB

Yes I have an Iphone.

Then most likely you pay a monthly bill for the services.

[LATB]

Originally Posted by Big bob

Then most likely you pay a monthly bill for the services.

Yes there’s a monthly bill. But I didn’t know that the girl at the Verizon store provided “services”. Ima have to look into that.

[LATB]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

I've been at about 20 closings, most of them were my own but also went to the closing of purchase and sale of my parents condo. I have no reason to suspect that they would change anything in the docs. I reviewed the docs sent to me but not at the closings.
Edit.. just did the math. It was about 20 closings.

Pretty sure what you signed was exactly what you reviewed. So you are good to go.

20 closings is probably above average for most.
I’ve done 20 in a year. Most years that I’ve been active I see 10-12. It has slowed and I’ll probably close under 10 this year. I’m actually ok with that, I’m plenty busy building.

[Big bob]

Originally Posted by LATB

Yes there’s a monthly bill. But I didn’t know that the girl at the Verizon store provided “services”. Ima have to look into that.

So you are paying them and giving all travel information along with all your contacts with any pictures to the government along with Facebook and anyone else that wants it.




YES SHE IS GIVING YOU THE FULL SERVICE

[GrandSportC3]

At this point, I drove over 600 miles already on FSD (had family visiting and I had to pick them up and drop them off at the airport).

So far, the system drivers very safe with little intervention needed BUT it's still far from perfect.

Other than the school zone limit which is a serious flaw, one complaint is that the car tries to hog the left lane.. I set the speed limit offset to 10%, so I'm going 77 mph in a 70 mph limit.. The car will always try to go into the left lane to pass cars and then does not go back to the middle lane. Based on Florida law, the left lane is to PASS and you should always move back to the center or right lane whenever you are not passing and the lane right of you is not blocked.
Another minor issue is that FSD seems way to cautious. I like to go on yellow if there is enough time to get through the intersection on yellow. However, FSD sides on the side of caution and slows down and will stop at the light even though there was enough time to complete the turn before turning red. Also, left turns take a lot longer than a human pilot would take.
System is very cautious when making turns with oncoming traffic. I sometimes lose my patience and take over as FSD takes too long to make up it's mind. Overall, from a safety perspective, FSD did fine except for the school zone issue. I personally wouldn't have the patience to wait to make a turn at a intersection without a light if there is a lot of traffic. At this state, I personally would not pay for it but considering the progress, the system is A LOT better than it was a year ago when it was the last time that I used it. It's progressing nicely. Most of my interventions were because I either lost patience or school zones but other than that, it does a pretty good job. No close calls. It recognizes pedestrians very well and drives accordingly. Still some work to be done but there is progress and the system is getting better . Drove through several construction zones without any issues.

[Vandelay Industries]

Originally Posted by GrandSportC3

At this point, I drove over 600 miles already on FSD (had family visiting and I had to pick them up and drop them off at the airport).

So far, the system drivers very safe with little intervention needed BUT it's still far from perfect.

Other than the school zone limit which is a serious flaw, one complaint is that the car tries to hog the left lane.. I set the speed limit offset to 10%, so I'm going 77 mph in a 70 mph limit.. The car will always try to go into the left lane to pass cars and then does not go back to the middle lane. Based on Florida law, the left lane is to PASS and you should always move back to the center or right lane whenever you are not passing and the lane right of you is not blocked.
Another minor issue is that FSD seems way to cautious. I like to go on yellow if there is enough time to get through the intersection on yellow. However, FSD sides on the side of caution and slows down and will stop at the light even though there was enough time to complete the turn before turning red. Also, left turns take a lot longer than a human pilot would take.
System is very cautious when making turns with oncoming traffic. I sometimes lose my patience and take over as FSD takes too long to make up it's mind. Overall, from a safety perspective, FSD did fine except for the school zone issue. I personally wouldn't have the patience to wait to make a turn at a intersection without a light if there is a lot of traffic. At this state, I personally would not pay for it but considering the progress, the system is A LOT better than it was a year ago when it was the last time that I used it. It's progressing nicely. Most of my interventions were because I either lost patience or school zones but other than that, it does a pretty good job. No close calls. It recognizes pedestrians very well and drives accordingly. Still some work to be done but there is progress and the system is getting better . Drove through several construction zones without any issues.

Just like an actual Tesla driver.

[Steve_R]

Here's another real world situation I wonder how FSD would handle. This is on a two lane highway where the speed limit is 45 mph. There's a walking/biking trail that crosses it. If the flashing lights are not on or there isn't anyone waiting to cross you don't have to slow down. If the lights are flashing or there are people waiting to cross, you must stop. There's also a red stop sign on the warning sign on the right, but it simply shows where to stop if it's required.

What would FSD do here?
.

[RedLS1GTO]

Originally Posted by Vandelay Industries

Just like an actual Tesla driver.

Most of them drive exactly the speed limit in the middle lane... because if they go the speed that they would need to go in order to actually pass somebody, their range goes to negative shit.



This is a chart from Tesla.com for the Model S.

https://www.tesla.com/blog/driving-range-model-s-family

The sitting and not turning thing, however, is spot on for them.

[Steve_R]

Damn, I didn't realize the range dropped that fast as speed increased. And that's with HVAC off, which most drivers don't do. I guess that's why I don't see a lot of Teslas on I-70 in Utah where the speed limit is 80 (and most traffic is going 85-90) and it can be a long way between chargers.

[GrandSportC3]

Originally Posted by RedLS1GTO

Most of them drive exactly the speed limit in the middle lane... because if they go the speed that they would need to go in order to actually pass somebody, their range goes to negative shit.



This is a chart from Tesla.com for the Model S.

https://www.tesla.com/blog/driving-range-model-s-family

The sitting and not turning thing, however, is spot on for them.

They haven't made the "85" version Model S for many years. This must be a very very old post.. I believe that they discontinued the "85" pack versions of the Model S in 2016, 8 years ago..